,HOW is the ROBERT H SCHULLER FAMILY NOW? (photo: R.H. Schuller receiving kindness award fr Jim Kok
Tuesday, May 7, 2024
Tuesday, June 6, 2023
2012: Last glimpse of the Schuller Iowa farmhouse before demolition 'Mansions of glory'By James C. Schaap August 10, 2012
2012: Last glimpse of the Schuller Iowa farmhouse before demolition 'Mansions of glory'By James C. Schaap August 10, 2012
Thursday, October 7, 2021
Saturday, March 20, 2021
Saturday, March 13, 2021
Saturday, July 11, 2020
Ivanhoe Reformed Church in Riverdale Illinois is where the late Robert Schuller started out as a pastor
Ivanhoe Reformed Church in Riverdale Illinois is where the late Robert Schuller started out as a pastor
"Today in history, July 11, 2020 | Ten years ago — The Rev. Robert H. Schuller, founder of Southern California’s Crystal Cathedral megachurch, announced he would retire after 55 years in the pulpit."
"Today in history, July 11, 2020 | Ten years ago — The Rev. Robert H. Schuller, founder of Southern California's Crystal Cathedral megachurch, announced he would retire after 55 years in the pulpit."
Sunday, July 5, 2020
The new normal: drive-in church. Robert Schuller (RIP) was way ahead of the curve
The new normal due to #coronavirus: drive-in church. Robert Schuller (RIP) was way ahead of the curve
Tuesday, March 24, 2020
Saturday, March 14, 2020
alert: bobby schuller has cancelled shepherds grove "in-person worship services " (watch online only)
"It's good to know that nothing takes God by surprise, isn't it? Like me, I'm sure you've been hearing a lot about the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). In response to local authorities and in compliance with the governor's recent request that groups of over 250 people not meet publicly, we've made the important decision to cancel all in-person worship services at Shepherd's Grove through the end of this month. We feel this is the prudent thing to do in an effort to protect our multi-generational community, especially the elderly and those with special needs, who are most vulnerable. "
--
--
#
Friday, October 25, 2019
link to photos: NEW CHRIST CATHEDRAL, Sept 2019
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DbpHRd9hRr3phUuF8M1kxPnoIkjlU8Ii
--
#Repent&BeBaptized ! #acceptChrist2bSaved2day !
Monday, October 14, 2019
video 10/6/19 yes ROBERT SCHULLER's MINISTRY continues despite the bankruptcy, here's grandson BOBBY
see video at
https://youtu.be/cd9CFteZiAk
10/6/19 yes the late ROBERT H. SCHULLER's MINISTRY continues despite the bankruptcy, here's grandson BOBBY preaching at their latest location in Irvine California. Apparently it is STILL online and on television in some places, still called the "Hour of Power" ...complicating it all is that the late founder named Robert H Schuller had a son who also preached at the Crystal Cathedral for a while whose name is also Robert Schuller (middle initial A to differentiate )...not sure what Robert A Schuller is doing lately ..not sure if he's still in the ministry or not.. last thing i heard indirectly is that he spends time on his sailboat in mexico .. , and then there's the THIRD ROBERT SCHULLER (shown here) who goes by the name "Bobby Schuller" . He came along near the time that the Crystal Cathedral started struggling...he first started preaching in the hospitality center AT the crystal cathedral, then he moved to a location in nearby City of Orange, and then after the bankruptcy was finalized he took over as the pastor at their new location about two blocks away still in Garden Grove (they swapped locations with Callistus Catholic Church and the OC Catholic Diocese now owns and uses the revamped Crystal Cathedral as their headquarters and main worship location after several years of upgrade work on the worn out cathedral) . Then about a year ago, Bobby moved their smaller re-located Crystal Cathedral congregation (subsequently called Shepherds Grove) to a new location in Irvine (shown here) , and merged with a presbyterian church , ..that's the LATEST !
then there's also SHEILA SCHULLER, one of the daughter's of the late Schuller...she was also preaching a lot at the Crystal Cathedral near the time it entered into bankruptcy and she and her brother RObert A. Schuller (the father of Bobby shown here) had become a bit antagonistic towards one another.. . She ALSO formed a new congregation in the city of Orange and may be still running this church..I VISITED there once many years ago but havent' checked back in lately.. I assume they are still there..
WISH THEM ALL THe best.. but I've moved onward . God bless
-- then there's also SHEILA SCHULLER, one of the daughter's of the late Schuller...she was also preaching a lot at the Crystal Cathedral near the time it entered into bankruptcy and she and her brother RObert A. Schuller (the father of Bobby shown here) had become a bit antagonistic towards one another.. . She ALSO formed a new congregation in the city of Orange and may be still running this church..I VISITED there once many years ago but havent' checked back in lately.. I assume they are still there..
WISH THEM ALL THe best.. but I've moved onward . God bless
#Repent&BeBaptized ! #acceptChrist2bSaved2day !
Monday, October 7, 2019
Photo: Bobby Schuller is still preaching his grandpa's positive thinking message ... albeit not at the famous Crystal Cathedral anymore ..here he is on 10/6/19 in Irvine
Bobby Schuller is still preaching his grandpa's positive thinking message ... albeit not at the famous Crystal Cathedral anymore ..here he is on 10/6/19 in Irvine https://t.co/nxMK16GL0e
Monday, January 14, 2019
Tuesday, October 30, 2018
Monday, October 29, 2018
Thursday, September 20, 2018
Re Grief: "Robert A. Schuller (@robertaschuller) on Twitter'
"
@robertaschuller 9h
Grief has a season of its own and when we don't spend time mourning a death that should be dealt with "now", we will have to deal with it sometime in the future.
"
Friday, May 18, 2018
Thursday, May 10, 2018
Sunday, March 4, 2018
Friday, March 2, 2018
Tuesday, December 12, 2017
Sunday, October 15, 2017
Saturday, August 12, 2017
"Belongings of Crystal Cathedral founder Robert Schuller being auctioned off " Orange County Register
"
Items include letters written to the reverend by presidents Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan; an autographed copy of Johnny Cash's 1975 memoir "Man in Black"; Schuller's Bible from the 1950s, signed by evangelist Billy Graham; and knickknacks the "Hour of Power" TV show's founder kept around his estate....
Items include letters written to the reverend by presidents Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan; an autographed copy of Johnny Cash's 1975 memoir "Man in Black"; Schuller's Bible from the 1950s, signed by evangelist Billy Graham; and knickknacks the "Hour of Power" TV show's founder kept around his estate....
To bid on items, visit ebth.com and enter "The Dr. Robert H. Schuller Sale."..."
JESUS HEALS!
Sunday, July 9, 2017
Wednesday, June 21, 2017
Saturday, May 27, 2017
[this thing better fly like a spaceship !] wow! CHRIST CATHEDRAL NOT TO OPEN UNTIL 2019
un-bee-liev-able, the New Christ Cathedral delayed again, now not to open until 2019....; when it was still the Crystal Cathedral, I thought all it needed was simply the seats replaced...they're putting MULTI MULTI MILLIONS into "refurbishing" it...what are they doing, making a space rocket? ! is it stewardly to use this money in such a way ??!!
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christ-cathedral-formerly-crystal-cathedral-to-welcome-1-3-million-catholics-in-2019-reopening-185229/
JESUS SAVES!
http://www.christianpost.com/
JESUS SAVES!
Saturday, May 20, 2017
Saturday, May 13, 2017
RH SCHULLER re-VISITS HOPE COLLEGE, 10 YEARS AGO Today, HollandSentinel
"Today in history: May 13
HollandSentinel
In 1997: The Rev. Robert H. Schuller returned to his alma mater Monday and reinforced the message that's helped him develop an international television ministry - Christians must ..."
HollandSentinel
In 1997: The Rev. Robert H. Schuller returned to his alma mater Monday and reinforced the message that's helped him develop an international television ministry - Christians must ..."
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/entertainmentlife/20170513/today-in-history-may-13
Jesus Saves
Sunday, March 5, 2017
Saturday, February 25, 2017
EVERYBODY TAKES A STAB AT SUMMING UP SCHULLER, BETSY, TRUMP, EVANGELICALS, REFORMED [& Kuyperianism] & CRC IN ONE BIG BREATH "Donald Trump and the Theology of Empire " – Capital & Main
But they can't do it justice... It's not something that can be "pegged" so easily... It works both ways folks
http://capitalandmain.com/donald-trump-and-the-theology-of-empire-0222
Sunday, January 15, 2017
Saturday, January 14, 2017
I WAS CLUMPED INTO THIS GROUP AS WELL BY SOME [who never asked me what I believe ] "Evangelicals should be deeply troubled by Donald Trump’s attempt to mainstream heresy" - Berean Research
"One stream is represented by Norman Vincent Peale's longtime bestseller "The Power of Positive Thinking" (1952). The famous Manhattan pastor is Trump's tenuous connection to Christianity, having heard the preacher frequently in his youth. For Peale and his protege, the late Robert Schuller of Crystal Cathedral fame, the gospel of Christ's death for human sin and resurrection for justification and everlasting life was transformed into a "feel-good" therapy. Self-esteem was the true salvation...."
http://bereanresearch.org/evangelicals-deeply-troubled-donald-trumps-attempt-mainstream-heresy/
Saturday, January 7, 2017
[topics:schuller,bear Bryant, elderly, gospel ] "The magic bank account " Dunwoody Crier: Our Columnists
"
Coach Bryant was a heavy drinker and smoker and his health declined rapidly in the 1970s. Shortly before his death at age 69 in 1983, he met evangelist Robert Schuller on an airplane. Their talk about religion had a major impact on Bryant. Perhaps, with goal to go, he received a last minute gift of redemption, a spiritual "Hail Mary pass," before..."
Coach Bryant was a heavy drinker and smoker and his health declined rapidly in the 1970s. Shortly before his death at age 69 in 1983, he met evangelist Robert Schuller on an airplane. Their talk about religion had a major impact on Bryant. Perhaps, with goal to go, he received a last minute gift of redemption, a spiritual "Hail Mary pass," before..."
http://www.thecrier.net/our_columnists/article_7e90825e-cfd0-11e6-b9b9-5f1b7142a8f5.html
Tuesday, December 20, 2016
Saturday, August 6, 2016
I REMEMBER ROBERT SCHULLER TALKING ABT HIM "Egypt's former Grand Mufti survives assassination attempt " | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR
"Two men on a motorcycle fired guns on Gomaa as he entered a mosque, the sources said. He was unharmed and one of his body guards received a minor injury to the foot. The gunmen immediately fled the scene...."
-vk-
Saturday, July 23, 2016
[what would Bob say] academy award of architecture "TOWER OF HOPE WINS 2016 MODERNISM IN AMERICA AWARD " OC Catholic
"The Tower of Hope at Christ Cathedral, designed by Richard Neutra in 1968, has won the prestigious Citation of Technical Achievement, awarded by DOCOMOMO U.S. in its U.S. Modernism in America Awards. The honor is equivalent to winning an Academy Award within the fields of architecture and engineering...."
http://occatholic.com/tower-of-hope-wins-2016-modernism-in-america-award/
http://occatholic.com/tower-of-hope-wins-2016-modernism-in-america-award/
-vk-
Sunday, June 12, 2016
BE A SALT SHAKER "10 reasons Christians must become salt"
I still remember Sheila schullers sermon series of that title
http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/06/10-reasons-christians-must-become-salt/
http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/06/10-reasons-christians-must-become-salt/
-vk-
Wednesday, June 1, 2016
"Jan Crouch, Trinity Broadcasting Network Co-Founder, Dies at 78 " Christian News Headlines
"...
Jan Crouch, who co-founded Trinity Broadcasting Network along with her husband, has died at the age of 78 from complications of a stroke.
Crouch reportedly suffered a stroke..."
http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/jan-crouch-trinity-broadcasting-network-co-founder-dies-at-78.html
Jan Crouch, who co-founded Trinity Broadcasting Network along with her husband, has died at the age of 78 from complications of a stroke.
Crouch reportedly suffered a stroke..."
http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/jan-crouch-trinity-broadcasting-network-co-founder-dies-at-78.html
Vk
Wednesday, September 2, 2015
Popular Videos - Crystal Cathedral and Robert H. Schuller PlayList
RANDOM VIDEOS ABOUT SCHULLER & CRYSTAL CATHEDRAL:
"Popular Videos - Crystal Cathedral and Robert H. Schuller PlayList"
"And we know that in all things God works
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
Thursday, July 9, 2015
tp4, 6/20/15 "Report: Grandson Of Late Crystal Cathedral Founder Seriously Hurt In Car Crash"
"...CHP officers and Orange County Fire Department paramedics arrived to find the couple unconscious inside the locked vehicle and authorities had to break a window in order to treat them, Quesada said...."
-- --
"And we know that in all things God works
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
Tuesday, June 23, 2015
I just HOPE that SHEPHERD's GROVE is not becoming a CULT
I just HOPE that SHEPHERD's GROVE is not becoming a CULT...there are legitimate concerns about the Schuller's ministry becoming cult-like in nature, under the guise of a church...whereby people become more devoted to being a "schuller-ite" rather than a Christian. And the leader takes on celebrity status more than being a brother in Christ...and financial accountability is lacking...and you notice a lot of "important" plane trips to various parts of the world (more so by the lead pastor rather than including the various pastors & staff & parishioners)...and the "church" itself always being dependent upon the one celebrity leader..without whom the church flails around like a fish on shore, not sure what to do, and with nobody certain of enough empowerment to take charge. And when it was still the Crystal Cathedral, the "mother ship" (ie the RCA denomination) actually seemed to take its cues from the Schullers rather than the Schullers being accountable to the denomination. This is not meant to be a sweeping condemnation of the new Shepherd Grove, just a prudent warning of things to be wary about. We are called as people of the church to not just be "lackies" but to be growing in faith & spiritual discernment. It behooves me to warn my fellow brothers & sisters in Christ of potential pitfalls. If you are committed "for life" to the Schuller ministry, at least have the backbone to demand a certain amount of transparency & accountability. Don't accept a dictatorship & don't place Bobby or any of the other Schullers on a pedestal as if he or any of the Schullers is a "god" him or herself. Don't let them bully us. Expect them to be grateful for our support as parishioners & respectful towards us as persons and members of the body of Christ. When Bobby is about to take another big trip, ask him whether another person in the church could take his place and share some of these "responsibilities" (& privileges). If it is so important to go to Germany, or the Netherlands, or Hong Kong or wherever, to consult with the Hour of Power office, what might happen if Bobby gets sick or dies? Who will be prepared to step up in his place if nobody else gets included in these ministry duties? Or are you willing to accept that without Bobby, Shepherd's Grove closes? And the hour of Power comes to an end? If that is the case, then this is not a church, but a cult. It depends on one "celebrity personality" without whom it cannot stand or continue. This accountability should have been in place long before the Crystal Cathedral went bankrupt. Members need to demand and expect that others, not just Schullers, are being empowered & included in the ministry so that it can continue without a Schuller at the helm, if need be. Otherwise, maybe you just enjoy being "entertained" ...and that's what "church" is to you...a semi-spiritual weekly form of nice, feel-good, entertainment, with a bit of "god-talk". I personally am putting my chips on something greater than feel-good ministry. I want my membership with the Body of Christ to have eternal impact for my soul and for the sake of others. You should expect likewise. Don't settle for less. Your very soul depends upon it. Expect and demand to "feel good" and have everlasting impact. You will be held personally responsible. Will you say "Bobby said..." at the pearly gates & expect God to accept this as proof of your faith? Or do you want to be fooled? What does the BIBLE SAY? and what did you do to validate it? Don't put your faith in Bobby. Put your faith in the Bible! in God! in His Word!
-- "And we know that in all things God works
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
DEAR SCHULLERS: FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU, fool me twice, shame on me
DEAR SCHULLERS: as they say, "FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU, fool me twice, shame on me". In the ecclesiastical world it is wrong to cast aspersions on others, but at the same time we must be sober-minded and careful where we place our faith, loyalty, allegiances, et al. I just offer this as a caution, not as a broad generalization. Always be cautious of where you place your ultimate hope, faith, loyalty, allegiance, & of course, money. Be prudent, careful, wise. Ask God for discernment. -vk-
--
"And we know that in all things God works
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
for the good of those who love Him,..."
Romans 8.28
Tuesday, June 2, 2015
30-DAYs of PRAYER for BOBBY SCHULLER
6/2/15
Re
30-DAYS of PRAYER
for
BOBBY SCHULLER:
SO I kind of lost track of what
Bobby Schuller was doing after the bankruptcy of the Crystal Cathedral, until
recently. In fact, yesterday, I was
relaxing briefly at Corona Del Mar beach (little CDM, to be exact) listening to
my transistor radio & came across “The Bottom Line” Christian radio show
(hosted by Roger Marsh here in southern California) and heard him interviewing
Bobby. I was just about to go swimming but decided to listen to the interview
before doing so.
But let me back up. I didn’t even
know there was a “bobby schuller” or (Robert Vernon Schuller) back in 1984 when
my dad & family (ie myself, my younger brother, & my mom, minus my two
older siblings who were already in college) moved from Grand Rapids (MI) to
Bellflower (CA) because my dad had accepted a job at the Crystal Cathedral as
director of pastoral care. I was vaguely
familiar with the Schullers in general from the Hour of Power, which we watched
periodically on TV (although it only aired on Sunday morning so we only watched
it if we were staying home from church due to illness) . I think I was most
familiar with the Carol Schuller story (because of her leg amputation due to a
motorcycle accident). I probably was aware that there was a Robert Schuller #2,
but didn’t know much about him in 1984 (he would have been 30-years old at the
time, born in 1954).
But Bobby was born in 1981 so he
was only 3-years old at the time we came to California, meaning he’s about
34-years old now? All I knew at the time was we were coming to sunny southern
California and people rode horses in our new neighborhood (called an “equestrian
community”) and we were about a 15-minute drive to the nearest beach (Seal
Beach). I was a senior in high school and had lived my whole life thus far in
the Midwest (Iowa & Michigan) and knew how long and cold the winters could
be, but still LOVED my friends, classmates, church members, pastors, teachers
et al where I grew up. It was truly home.
Anyways, Bellflower had one big similarity to
grand rapids: it was a Dutch-American community with lots of Christian Reformed
Churches (CRC for short). Actually, Grand Rapids has MANY, many more CRC’s than
Bellflower, but relatively speaking, Bellflower has a LOT compared to most of
the southern California communities, and according to it’s size &
population.
So that sets the stage for the
present. From 1984 until 2005 (?) or
thereabouts Bobby Schuller was not in the picture. Then suddenly he arrived at
the Crystal Cathedral. Suddenly I was aware there was a third Robert Schuller.
By that time I had already left Fuller Seminary and started my own Christian
evangelical ministry and was still regularly-to-periodically attending Sunday
service at the Crystal Cathedral (this was before the sharp decline began). I
remember he started a ministry in the new hospitality center on the top floor. I attended once.
Then he apparently started a church
in a building somewhere in Orange that I never attended. He would re-appear
from time-to-time at the Crystal Cat as a guest or guest preacher, but it was
sporadic, never on a regular basis. At the same time the two adult children of
Robert Schuller #1 were battling it out as to who would be the lead pastor at
the Crystal. For a while it was Robert A. Schuller (the father of Bobby), and
then later it was Sheila. And finally, just as the Cathedral was finalizing it’s
bankruptcy Bobby returned and took the helm. Somewhere around this time I sent
a letter to him, thinking we might have some commonalities but in retrospect I
realize we do not have much in common. I’m 48-years old, by the way, so we are
not even of the same generation. I think I thought he was older at the time he
first appeared, but he’s about 14-years younger than me, which is significant.
Anyways, as all of this was
transpiring I was also attending numerous other churches on a regular basis,
including roman catholic parishes, even the closest one to the Crystal
Cathedral on a periodic basis, St. Callistus, which would become Shepherd’s
Grove (for those who don’t know, after the CC was sold to the Catholics, the CC
congregation moved down the street to St. Callistus and it became shepherd’s
grove, while the St. Callistus congregation moved into the arboretum and it
became Christ’s Cathedral; the Cathedral itself is being renovated and will not
be ready for worship until 2016 ).
While going thru seminary, and attending the
Crystal Cathedral I was also observing the sociological phenomenon of the CC. I
was a “pastor” by this time, albeit more so an evangelist than a formal church
leader as is most-often associated with the title pastor. I thought about
leading a church, but was still not convinced about how God wants “church’ to
be conducted. I have reservations about what we call “church” today is what God
really intended . It’s become “big business.” It requires accountants,
secretaries, maintenance, etc etc etc . My idea of church is just people, who
believe, gathering together, without all the “politics” to put it kindly.
To be honest, when we first came to
the Crystal Cathedral in 1984 I was totally impressed. The architecture was
awesome. The services were inspiring, interesting, edifying. The big TV
cameras, at that time, were something to behold for those of us who grew up coming
out of the black-&-white TV era into color TV, then cable TV (with a long
wire ), and gradually to remote control, VCR’s and on & on. Being able to
reach 1000’s of people across the country, and even around the world BACK THEN
was quite the big deal. Today, you can do so with a tiny smart phone, uploading
video, or a photo or text message at the click of a button. Times have changed.
Thus, it wasn’t until just last
week, and then again yesterday, that Bobby Schuller came back into my focus.
Last week I went to Shepherd’s Grove for the first time because my dad, & a
few other of the long-time CC pastors, was being honored with a “pastor emeritus”
ceremony. I decided to go because it had some sentimental significance & to
show support for my dad and his allegiance to the CC and the pastoral care
& kindness ministry for so many years. He was also honored at the last CC
service in the Cathedral itself, where he semi-retired. I think this emeritus
ceremony was more of an official retirement, but maybe he will continue to be
involved, with no strings attached, at the Shepherd’s Grove, I’m not sure. And
to be clear, he is still mentally & physically acute, seems to be doing
well, and still doing periodic kindness conferences from time-to-time. He was
also doing pastoral care, periodically, for Robert Schuller #1 before he died,
at the Artesia Christian home (which is affiliated with our CRC denomination).
The reason I was no longer
attending the new crystal cathedral (or Shepherd’s Grove) was because towards
the end of the original CC I was becoming less & less comfortable attending
the CC due to relatively new volunteers treating me like I was a “newcomer.” I
had been there since 1984, come-&-go, and yet a new volunteer who came from
wherever, maybe even another country, would sometimes treat me as if it was my
first time there. I even suspected at times that they were deliberately being “mind
blind” towards me because it made them feel as if they were “above “ me.
Let me explain: at some church
there are volunteers who see their participation as part of a “ladder” on the “pyramid”.
They figure that by volunteering they may be “below” the pastor & some of
the other higher-up church workers, but at least they are “above” the average
person attending to whom they hand a bulletin, or who they watch as the
offering plate gets passed (to make sure nobody takes anything out of the
plate, right?). This is a phenomena I see too often at various churches, not
just at the CC then or now.
Furthermore, there is even “racial
posturing’ at some churches, and I saw it creeping in at the CC . Traditionally,
churches were usually ethnic gatherings in general. There were, and are,
so-called “black churches” , & “white churches” , & “Vietnamese churches”
, etc. And of the so-called white churches, these were often actually
ethnic-oriented to a certain extent. The CC was a white church in general, but
was also Dutch-American more than other ethnicities. Robert Schuller came from
the Dutch-American church communities of Iowa, attended the Dutch-American Hope
College (in Holland, MI), and was part of the RCA (Reformed Church of America),
which was originally part of the Dutch-Reformed Church , which later split into
CRC & RCA due to relatively small matters, which are no longer remembered, by and large, today. But back
then, still in the 60’s & 70’s & even a bit into the 80’s the
distinctions were still there.
My dad wouldn’t have been called by
Robert Schuller to come to the CC if he hadn’t been affiliated with the
Dutch-American Christian tradition . Growing up in Grand Rapids we often
worshiped with other ethnicities at our particular small Christian Reformed
church, but a lot of other CRC’s were more ethnically homogeneous. This was
still the way it was at the CC when we arrived in 1984. It was a white church
with a bit of the Dutch-American emphasis, but less sso than you would find at
the CRC communities in Bellflower. The CC was more just white Americana, albeit
Schuller would often talk about his Dutch heritage.
I say this all as a review to come
to a conclusion about how things have changed now that the CC is Shepherd’s
Grove and there are certain non-white ethnic persons who decided they were
going to make sure this is a more than a “white church.” It was clear, in some
cases, that some persons of color were now coming to the CC to make a “political
point”. And they would even become volunteers or even on the pastoral staff and
suddenly they were “above” you (in their minds).
Furthermore, I don’t think Bobby
has much, if any, loyalty to the Dutch-American tradition. Unlike his father,
(& aunt Sheila) who went to college at Hope (like his dad) in Holland
Michigan (Hope College is affiliated with the RCA) , Bobby went to Oral Roberts
in Oklahoma. I remember when he first showed up at the CC he was sort of a
maverick in terms of doing “altar calls” whenever he had the opportunity. I don’t
think his grandpa Robert Schuller #1 was quite as comfortable with this sort of
evangelism even though he was evangelical in general. I’m not even sure Bobby’s
dad was doing altar calls in his ministry either at Rancho Capistrano or at the
CC. I think this was something sort of new to the CC (although I noticed Sheila
becoming more and more evangelical in terms of inviting people to accept Christ
at every opportunity, even at Robert Schuller’s funeral, but she wasn’t doing
altar calls the same way Bobby was doing as you might see more in the Oral
Roberts tradition).
So I was sitting at Shepherd’s
Grove last week, watching my dad “happily” get his “emeritus” award, and
despite having been a contributor to the CC not only financially, but also as a
volunteer, I felt like I didn’t belong there anymore. When I drove into the
parking lot I even got an “evil eye” from a black female parking lot volunteer
who seemed to be “judging me” in a fleshly manner. And I was seated by a young Korean(?)
usher who seemed to want me to clearly know , but aggressive body language, that
he was more of a member of the church than me. I wanted to tell him (& the black lady in the parking lot) what
I had done for and with the church since 1984, but would it have mattered? Somewhere
along the way there seems to have creeped an anti-white American posture from
just a few “minorities” who had arrived at the CC. And it seemed to have
political innuendo. But there was “localism” too. It wasn’t just a matter of
ethnicity or race, but there were a few ushers & others who were like
robots in terms of their service to the church, and again, it made them feel as
if they were higher on the pyramid than me, or persons like me, who were
contributing to the church behind the scenes.
Thus in some ways the church was
becoming too much like a “pyramid scheme” with those most seen in front of the
camera or handing out bulletins or whatever it was as long as it was visual
being “higher” than those who did their service to the church and/or God in
less noticeable ways. I couldn’t compete because I didn’t want to be a
volunteer going thru the motions every Sunday, hearing the same sermon &
jokes etc twice . I like being in “real time”…everything being REAL, not
rehearsed, not a script. I don’t want to “play church” or “play pastor.” This
does NOT make life easier, but more difficult, albeit nonetheless more real,
and I think, more true to God’s intent.
Funny thing is that while all of
the CC bankruptcy was unfolding I was attending both Catholic & Protestant
churches. I was exploring all of OC & L.A. and even a bit of SD (san diego
county), assertively trying to attend as many different churches as possible:
protestant, catholic, & orthodox. IN fact this led me to even offer a new
branch of Christianity, pro-cath-ordox, which seeks to truly united the three
main branches of Christian faith. Thus, you can keep attending wherever you
attend, your local church, but you think of yourself at the highest level as
pro-cath-ordox, not protestant, not catholic, not orthodox, but united,
three-in-one. This makes you a greater participant in the larger, worldwide
body of Christ, not just your local community church.
Since the transition I have kept
attending the services in the arboretum at the Christ Cathedral, gradually
being a recognized participant, as well as at numerous other parishes &
congregations, both protestant, catholic, & orthodox. It was NOT easy doing
this at first. People want familiarity and loyalty at the local level. But it’s
imperative that we break thru this need for comfort in terms of familiarity
& local loyalty if we are to be more true to God’s intent for the body of
Christ.
But this is supposed to be about
Bobby and 30-days of prayer for him. It was last week that he came back into my
focus if only for the brief worship service, and then he came back to mind as I
was sitting on the beach listening to him being interviewed on “The Bottom Line.”
I felt a mixture of feelings about him as pastor, and about the whole “Schuller
Soap Opera” so to speak. I saw his wife, Hannah, for the first time at the
service last week. She looked so young.
Then I heard Bobby mentioned they
married at age twenty-one, also very young. But he “reversed”it saying he
thinks men should marry younger, and was critical of so-called “dudes” who date
for too long. This is another problem in the protestant church: the notion by
the married pastor that unmarried men are less disciplined than themselves. Some
protestant pastors don’t believe in the possibility of celibacy, let alone
respect it.
The catholic church is MUCH better
about respecting celibacy, while Hollywood has tried to make a mockery of it,
beginning with the film “The 40-year-old Virgin”. Men are NOT virgins, they are
celibates. Women are virgins and it is a virtue, but both Hollywood and some
parts of the protestant church don’t respect the Virgin Mary or female
virginity either. I think it is a cover-up for their own shame.
Also during the service, as well as
during the radio interview I heard Bobby mention “his book” about “happiness”
(according to Jesus). This is another phenomenon I am wearied by: that to be a
success you have to “publish” . You have
to have a book, or several. The Schuller trio (all three Roberts) are now
authors. Apparently this is Bobby’s second book. We went thru this with Robert
#1, Robert #2, & now Robert #3.
IT seems clear that we can “look
forward to”(?) decades of books by Bobby to come. It dawned on me that Bobby is
definitely a long-term career pastor, who is savvy about media, publishing,
traveling, and running a corporate church. It dawned on me that Bobby grew up
in a very privileged home, with lots of money, lots of travel, good education,
and the list goes on. He has had every advantage. He’s also been criticized. He
spoke about crying so hard he could barely drive the car once while recounting
how somebody had been critical of him. But this goes with the territory.
And now, especially given the way
the Crystal Cathedral ended, it behooves us to be CRITICAL of the Schullers. I
don’t mean we need to be making snarky or mean comments about them personally,
but we need to be critical in terms of whether their knowledge, experience,
long-term intentions are really, truly good for us as a church, or not?
A LOT of people invested in the
Crystal Cathedral financially and as volunteers thinking it was going to be a
permanent Christian church & ministry that really SHINED the LIGHT to the
world. A LOT of people believed that Robert Schuller had the wherewithal to
establish the beautiful campus financially so that it would last perpetually.
This was obviously NOT the case and a LOT of people were not just disappointed,
but hurt by it. If this was a corporation, there would be lawsuits and a
lot of blame being cast on people for what seems to be a lack of good
discernment about finances. But because it is a church, everything gets “washed
away’ as a matter of simply not enough donations. Blame the people for not
donating, not the financial decision-makers, right?
Church in orange county is big
business. Lots of mega-churches have risen up here. Maybe it begain with the
Crystal Cathedral, but there’s also Calvary Chapel, Mariners, Saddleback, and
many more. All of the pastors have ample incomes and are able to travel
extensively . This is a luxury, albeit in most cases it is chalked up as “doing
ministry.” On the radio show Bobby spoke of being in New York and on the way to
Israel when he had to turn around due to a health problem of one of his
children. I am sure Bobby has been to Israel many times.
That’s a luxury that most pastors
experience, but not many parishioners. I know the Schullers had a nice boat for
many years called the “Be Happy” or something like that. I imagine they enjoyed
going out to Catalina Island and fishing and all that. I know they had a
condominium in Hawaii, so all of the kids and grandkids probably have taken
trips to the Aloha state. And yet these are all things that are paid for, in
general, by church members. We do it because we want to believe that it’s
helping a good cause and we like to see a successfully, happy, even “worldly”
pastor who is doing well. But how much of this somewhat happy-go-lucky attitude
(also called “faith” by some) led to the ultimate bankruptcy of the CC? Even at the funeral of Robert Schuller #1 a
few months ago, the son (Robert #2) spoke of going “around the world” for a
fishing trip with his dad (and didn’t mention being a “fisher of men” simply
tuna or swordfish or whatever). And the daughter (Carol) spoke of not being
able to afford a pool cleaner at the parents
house after the bankruptcy. She thinks they are poor because they can’t afford
a pool cleaner? That’s a luxury to have a pool, let alone a pool cleaner.
So where do we go from here?
Clearly, Bobby is not going to “back down.” He’s got big plans and a vision
just like his grandfather. On the radio show he showed he was very aware of the
#’s of viewers of the “new” Hour of Power, even though he qualified that it was
not about #’s. So why mention the #’s
then? It’s hard to be critical of a Christian pastor. We all need grace, and
the minute we begin to be critical we feel like we are lacking grace. But we
need to be critical sometimes. Where is Bobby going to lead this new
congregation (or same congregation at a new location)? Or don’t they care? As
they say “Fool me once, shame on you,
Fool me Twice, Shame on me”.
I don’t think any of the Schullers
think they are “fooling” anybody. They have convinced themselves that this is
for the sake of the gospel. And “playing pastor” is part of the Schuller
tradition. They are all spin-offs of Robert #1, albeit there was something
uniquely original about RHS (Robert #1).
Robert #1 came from a small farm in
Iowa that once was destroyed by a tornado. He grew up in the Midwest…knowing
the cold of winter, months without sunshine. He knew tough times. He knew
poverty, at least as a child. What about the rest of the Schullers? They all
grew up in southern California coming of age when the Crystal Cathedral was
doing quite well. Robert #2 & Sheila at least attended Hope College and
showed some continuity with the Dutch-American RCA tradition, but Bobby seems
to have lost all of that affiliation. Dutch-Americans like a lot of other ethnicities
were loyal to each other. Robert #1 hired mostly RCA and especially Dutch
Reformed persons, like my dad, like Ken Leestma, & Terry Nyhuis, among
others. I don’t see that loyalty in Bobby, but that’s not my main concern. I’m
not looking for a job working “for Bobby”
at the Shepherd’s Grove.
More concerning is that there is no
affiliation at all apart from Christ in general. That may sound noble, but when
there’s no accountability to any board or denomination or wiser, older humans,
as you can see with the ultimate bankruptcy of the CC, problems arise. Sure,
the CC had a Board of Directors but they did TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE. And even the
RCA never did much, if anything at all, in terms of oversight of Schuller &
financial decision-making.
Furthermore, as you can see with
the lawsuit that Robert #1 filed before his death, he & the Schuller family
think of the Hour of Power & various aspects of his sermons & positive
thinking to be their own copyrighted material. Although Schuller lost his lawsuit
that had to do with further payments from the CC, it’s clear that there is a
possessiveness by some of the Schullers about what “he started” as opposed to
what Schuller started with the help of a lot of people called the church. Even
on the funeral program I noticed in small print at the bottom that they were
attempting to claim the funeral ceremony
itself was “protected by copyright”.
Back to 1984 when my dad excitedly
took the call to be director of pastoral care at the Crystal Cathedral. Only
myself and my few family members and a few others in our community know my dad’s
career as we know it. He started out as a CRC pastor for a small church in Iowa
and also did hospital ministry, especially psychiatric pastoral care ,
including CPE (clinical pastoral education). Apart from the parish in Iowa he
did mostly hospital chaplaincy in New York, Ann Arbor, and mostly in Grand
Rapids at our denominational Christian psychiatric hospital (Pine Rest). We
lived on Griswold street in Grand Rapids, about seven miles from Pine Rest
(actually in Caledonia). He would go to work every day as a chaplain while we
went to school, to our athletic activities, to musical events, etc. He was
truly devoted to doing pastoral care. He had a true passion for it, and
especially for issues of “grief.”
He had a passion for caring for people, and
that’s what he came to the CC with, a passion. And he was able to do a LOT in
that regard, even an annual kindness conference, a few books, along with
various other church duties (becomes class, new hope counseling, CPE, occasionally
preaching in the chapel-in-the-sky, but
not much, if ever, involved in the Sunday service . He was rarely in front of
the camera. Sometimes I wondered if the Schuller’s were very protective and
exclusive about who they allowed to “appear” in the Hour of Power.
Even at the “emeritus” service last
week, the pastors were only given “60-seconds” to say a few words. That’s a
60-second goodbye after 31-years. Sure, it all ended strangely given the
bankruptcy at the CC, when nobody seemed to be in control anymore, but now at
Shepherd’s Grove, are the same dynamics being resurrected? Is this another
several decades of the “Schuller show” ? As noted, Hannah read the scripture
(on camera for the Hour of Power I assume) , and Bobby conducted most of the
other liturgy, including the sermon of course. How much do the Schullers covet
the camera? And control it?
My feelings were that there was
something non-integral transpiring from the CC to the new Shepherd’s Grove. On
the radio interview, Bobby mentioned that the new church was now getting strong
and mentioned that he was happy to have gotten rid of a few people and better
of with some new people. This seemed to lack a bit of class. He didn’t mention
names but you notice that the blame goes towards other people, not himself, not
any of his own family members. I am concerned about Schullers being
self-serving. WE live in a shameless culture, and add Christian “grace” to it
and we are supposed to whitewash everything away now?
The church is NOT intended to be
anything & everything the pastor wants it to be. There has to be a certain
amount of nitty-gritty integrity & loyalty to certain principles. There has
to be self-discipline. Churches now borrow money banking on future
contributions. Who ever heard of a church going bankrupt before the Crystal
Cathedral? I’m sure it’s happened but never to such a large, seemingly financially
well-off ministry.
Maybe Bobby will continue to get
the big #’s in terms of viewership. I
get the feeling he is very savvy & aware of “the #’s” even if he won’t
admit it. This is so common now. But it shouldn’t be. As I entered the Shepherd’s
Grove the big TV cameras no longer were impressive.
It was NO BIG DEAL to know
it was being televised and would be shown on TV & internet all around the
world, not matter how many watched. I wondered if it is truly possible to be an
“incarnational ministry or church” via television. It is so ephemeral. Look how
easily and relatively quickly the CC went bankrupt and folded. Those who were
incarnationally involved with the CC couldn’t believe it, while those who were
involved less-so just moved on, down the street, try again. No big deal. The
church is supposed to be incarnational. Christ incarnate.
So I don’t know whether to feel
sorry for Bobby or angry or remain emotionally detached. Really, all I can do
is remain detached while intellectually trying to form a conclusion. And so I
decided to put it to God in prayer. Let us pray sympathetically for Bobby in
terms of just doing the natural thing in terms of opportunistically carrying on
what his grandfather started. Let us pray with a little more aggression if
there is any inkling in his mind that he may be taking advantage of us, and
that God will lead him in the right direction.
We all know, as TV audiences, etc
about those sorts of directors and producers who think of their audience &
consumers as “schmucks” . Let us hope and pray that this is not how Bobby thinks
of us. There were times when I would get a hint of this from the Schullers as
they were the savvy sophisticated TV producers and most of the rest of us were
the less-than-intelligent audience.
I don’t know where to go from here.
I just felt I had to get some of this off my chest given the feeling I got
recently about Bobby Schuller knowing that we have many decades to come of him
and new books and seeing articles in the OC Register about him and family, and
thinking to myself, “here we go again” just when I thought I could finally
exhale about the Schuller Soap Opera.
He’s here to stay. And I’m not
trying to be mean. I’m trying to formulate a way to understand what this means,
and whether we will be treated like fools , like a free studio audience for “his
show” or whether he is truly building up an incarnational church that sincerely
cares about the people in the building as much as , or hopefully more so, than
the remote viewer 1000 of miles away. Did you know that Hollywood produces so
many shows that they even pay some people to attend them ? These are paid studio
audiences. A good show needs a good audience to applaud, sing, or stand, and to
inspire the speakers and choir et al. Let us hope that Bobby isn’t thinking of
us as a free studio audience for the show to help the #’s.
Let us hope and pray that the Bobby
Schuller will grow, most of all, in care & concern for the church, the
people around him, who help make it happen, including the people who show up
week after week and drop their 1-dollar or 10-dollar or 100-dollar bill in the
offering plate, truly believing that it is for the Kingdom of God, and not for
a church corporation. Let us hope and pray for integrity. True integrity.
Sincerely
John Philip A. Vander Kok,
Street Evangelist
BA/BA/M.Div
Thursday, May 21, 2015
HARD TO FEEL SORRY 4 SCHULLERS? When RA Schuller talks about flying around the world 2 go fishing?
And not fishing for men,just fishing.
Just a thought.
Sunday, May 3, 2015
Orange County Catholic 4/26/15 "farewell to robert schuller"
Orange County Catholic
4/26/15
"farewell to robert schuller"
4/26/15
"farewell to robert schuller"
Tuesday, April 28, 2015
4/20/15 at the ROBERT SCHULLER FUNERAL @ CRYSTAL CHRIST CATHEDRAL
BISHOP BLAKE 
LIVES IN HAWAII
ROBERT A SCHULLER,
the ONLY SON
IN THE MIDDLE IN PURPLE is the pastor from Honolulu , Dan Chun, who Schuller apparently requested to preside over his funeral. Also on far right is Bishop Vann (orange county diocese); to his left is Bishop Blake (west Angeles church); to the Left of the Honolulu pastor is Tony Campolo;
among others;
among others;
AFTER the public ceremony, family members gathered for a final private moment with the casket
i see Jim Kok, one of the staff pastors for so many years (gray hair, sunglasses, tallest head )
Bishop Blake
Sheila Schuller
before the funeral I attended
630am mass in the arboretum; Crystal Christ Cathedral is now a Catholic church
630am mass in the arboretum; Crystal Christ Cathedral is now a Catholic church
empty seats before the funeral
above: Lawrence Wilkes was the evening service pastor for many years
THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES & INSPIRATION ROBERT SCHULLER. AND THANKS TO ALL THE MEMBERS of the CRYSTAL CATHEDRAL & HOUR OF POWER FOR SO MANY YEARS WITHOUT WHOM NONE OF SCHULLER's INSPIRATION & VISION WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE. IT TOOK ALL OF US TO MAKE IT HAPPEN...VOLUNTEERS, CONTRIBUTERS, EMPLOYEES, STAFF PASTORS, VISITORS, TV VIEWERS...TOGETHER & COLLECTIVELY WE MADE IT HAPPEN !
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